[Solidus]

A US soldier waterboarded his daughter because she c/wouldn't recite her ABCs.

http://the-trident.c...?showtopic=8301

Suppose he was over in a war, killed dozens of enemy soldiers and was a true american hero (Yo Joe) but then does this.

What then

Should he be remembered as the hero or the lunatic?

[adam]

It's hard...

On one hand in order to get into the military they break you physically, mentally and emotionally.. then build you back up to be a killer and a fighter...
Being away at war has psychological effects..

I've read one person say "My husband is a soldier and and an excellent father. The man in this story is a child abuser plain and simple. If he wasn't a soldier he'd probably still be abusive and this wouldn't be a story."

Maybe he should be remembered as a person who did "good" and "bad".. just like everyone else.... a person with flaws.

[Solidus]

that's fine and good, but with extremes like waterboarding which is now inder international review, its a bit harder.

I agree with you though.

[TiffJane]

Quote

And yet...
He will weild a gun on a country's behalf and if he dies, he will be honoured, not for being the moron who just did as he was told/trained to do, but for being a man of bravery and honour.
The absurdity is more than appalling.

The thing is, it may be his own government that has damaged him to this point. War is a real bad thing and messes up people's heads. So he might have been the best/greatest dad in the world before and come back so scarred his perceptions of normal have been warped.

Does that make him a moron?


Albeit he could very well have been the same way before war and all the army did was teach him the hows of his brutality.

like adam said, I think it's a hard thing.

Specially since, when anyone else abuses someone its just considered horrible.. and people are ready to light the fires and bear their pitchforks without considering what lead up to that. When does psychologcal damage inflicted onto someone cease being taken into consideration when they in turn do harm themselves.

Often the time spent in jail I think might be better spent in counselling. (depending the danger posed to society)

[R%ST@]

TiffJane, on Feb 8 2010, 11:29 AM, said:

Quote

And yet...
He will weild a gun on a country's behalf and if he dies, he will be honoured, not for being the moron who just did as he was told/trained to do, but for being a man of bravery and honour.
The absurdity is more than appalling.

The thing is, it may be his own government that has damaged him to this point. War is a real bad thing and messes up people's heads. So he might have been the best/greatest dad in the world before and come back so scarred his perceptions of normal have been warped.

Does that make him a moron?


Albeit he could very well have been the same way before war and all the army did was teach him the hows of his brutality.

like adam said, I think it's a hard thing.

Specially since, when anyone else abuses someone its just considered horrible.. and people are ready to light the fires and bear their pitchforks without considering what lead up to that. When does psychologcal damage inflicted onto someone cease being taken into consideration when they in turn do harm themselves.

Often the time spent in jail I think might be better spent in counselling. (depending the danger posed to society)

Sigh...

I recant, pending a post-enlistment medical report.

The judicial system is SUPPOSED to decide between those persons who would better benefit from counselling and those who need to do time.

[harry]

All of the good in the world is eroded by 1 mistake. Sad but true.

[R%ST@]

harry, on Feb 8 2010, 11:39 AM, said:

All of the good in the world is eroded by 1 mistake. Sad but true.

Yall jus trying to make me feel bad now...

[Merr]

TiffJane, on Feb 8 2010, 10:29 AM, said:

The thing is, it may be his own government that has damaged him to this point. War is a real bad thing and messes up people's heads. So he might have been the best/greatest dad in the world before and come back so scarred his perceptions of normal have been warped.

Does that make him a moron?


Albeit he could very well have been the same way before war and all the army did was teach him the hows of his brutality.

like adam said, I think it's a hard thing.

Specially since, when anyone else abuses someone its just considered horrible.. and people are ready to light the fires and bear their pitchforks without considering what lead up to that. When does psychologcal damage inflicted onto someone cease being taken into consideration when they in turn do harm themselves.

Often the time spent in jail I think might be better spent in counselling. (depending the danger posed to society)

I agree and disagree, for me I'm looking at what I see in friends.

While I will agree that the armed forces brakes you to build you back ie as a civilian I am nothing, those who fight along side you are your brothers/sisters in arms and their worth is in the fact that they fight, the braver the fight the more their worth.

However while they do this there is a huge ideology also of the family, and a CO can and will get involved if a solider does not treat his family correctly (DV, non support etc), so I really think when you see people like this you are seeing mentally damaged people who got into the armed forces and going into a war zone has pushed them further into their mental break down, I have friends in all branches (from the ones who leave and you only know when they come back to the ones that you see them leaving on tv) and the ones who are scared more are the ones who were scared going in and going through war just made it worse, they are much more volatile

My very close friend is like this, but trust I wouldn't have left my kids under a certain age with her before she went to war further more when she came back from a war zone, and she knew this and didn't have kids because she knew she was mentally damaged, but I know women who do have kids for men who are just as mentally damaged as my friend and make excuses and when the men break they are all surprised
In this case his acts in total make me ask if he was allowed in the army to make numbers, I won't be surprised if he barely squeaked in and is one of those who wouldn't be if not for war, am I getting my pitch fork yes to a point, he was taught to protect and serve and he didn't protect his own child infact he terrorized her acting on her fear, yes he did it while having a break down but he's no better to me than women who kill their kids while going through postpartum psychosis, because while you are building to that point you can always ask for help

[harry]

roostafalife, on Feb 8 2010, 11:44 AM, said:

harry, on Feb 8 2010, 11:39 AM, said:

All of the good in the world is eroded by 1 mistake. Sad but true.

Yall jus trying to make me feel bad now...

Unless you have money or connections you will be screwed.

[TiffJane]

that point about people having no excuse because they could ask for help along the way before they reach that point.. I agree and disagree

some can, & should but don't and yes they hold blame... others don't even realize they need it & don't know where to turn to find it



A point I was meaning to bring up in all this is this, people will admit to trauma in a soldier causing them to do things they would otherwise not do...and some level of understanding is awarded them... but how often does this happen in just the average citizen... the abuse victim that then abused or becomes a violent alcoholic.. etc etc

I don't really have a conclusion about where the line is as far as what we take into consideration before lighting our torches... but I'm just pondering it.

Yeah the legal system is suppose to sus out when counsel/psychiatric help would be better than jail... but again... you have to be on the far end of crazy it seems for it to apply... in which case its almost useless anyway...